Gracie and Rachel

Gracie Coates and Rachel Ruggles have been making music together as Gracie and Rachel since their acclaimed 2017 self-titled debut, sharing stages with Tori Amos, Ani DiFranco, and Lucy Dacus along the way. But the duo's creative partnership was quietly fraying beneath the surface, and their new album, If We Could, Would We (out April 10 on Righteous Babe Records), required something they'd never attempted to fix it: writing alone.

Produced by Benjamin Lazar Davis (Maya Hawke, Joan as Police Woman), the record splits into four solo tracks each and four collaborative songs and represents the most unguarded work either of them has made. Shaped by a period of separation and near-dissolution, the album asks the question embedded in its title: if they could do it differently, would they?

Analogue: When I listen to the early singles, there's a real sense that songwriting is a way of discerning your own motives, of examining your posture toward the world. Does that feel congruent with what's happening on this record?

Gracie Coates: Yeah, totally. I feel like that's exactly kind of how we were able to make music—by kind of like a diaristic thing that then ends up being public, which can be scary. It's us trying to figure out like what the hell we're doing, and notes to self about longing and regret and remorse. "WTF" was definitely a really good example of that for both of us. We were feeling a lot of inner turmoil in our personal relationships and also in the world, in the state of the nation. There are a lot of questions on the record in general. Even the title—we kind of considered that it maybe needed a question mark at the end. If We Could, Would We is sort of a question, or like a dot-dot-dot, an ellipsis. A lot of questions and not a lot of answers.

Rachel Ruggles: I definitely agree with everything that Gracie's saying. For me, this chapter that we've opened is honestly quite different for me personally, because I honestly don't really find myself to actually be a songwriter. I'm more of an instrumentalist, much more in the soundscape, sound design world of music-making. "Caroline" is sort of like the first time I'm maybe exploring words as my way forward. It's been a little scary—to have that kind of literalness to the art, whereas I'm usually drawn more to abstracted sounds. But it's been really revealing and very helpful. Everything I'm talking about in that song is truthful. It was during a time of separation, ending a relationship, and trying to find a new way forward and a new path for myself.

Analogue: What does that vulnerability do for the two of you in terms of trust and chemistry—bringing that to each other and having it be a safe enough space?

Gracie: For the first time on a record, we wrote fully separately. We've always been really collaborative—even if somebody has a song idea, we bounce it back and forth. This time we did it really in a solitary way, but there was like a real big support for the other person doing that, kind of pushing each other to actually do that. I was nervous and wanting to do some solo things, and Rachel really pushed me to say like, go do this. And then I kind of pushed her back to do it for herself as well. There's something about that that was really freeing and also really grounding for our ability to come back together and make four songs on the record collaboratively.

The title, If We Could, Would We—it's like, if we could, would we do this differently? Would we still be a band? There's so much about our relationship on this record: separation and coming back together, empowering each other, deciding to do this. There's a lot about our relationship that needed independence in order to come back to each other in a more full way. It's kind of the cliche of when people say, 'you complete me' or whatever. For so long, we've completed each other, and this is the first time where we completed ourselves. And then we came back, and we were kind of doubly ready to make more. That felt really enriching.

Rachel: When you're in a long-term relationship, and you're a band, you're not really two people. You're kind of just one person. When things are difficult, and you're both inside of that, it's hard to comfort and nurture the other person because you're kind of just one thing experiencing it at the same time. This experiment allowed us to experience comfort and support from the other in a way that we really haven't been able to explore. I feel like I got to experience sides of Gracie as honestly like a friend, somebody who's just there for me, rather than, 'I'm in a band with you and we share a business.' We both got to explore different sides of vulnerability with one another through making solo songs.

Analogue: Was there a point where you thought there might be no more Gracie and Rachel?

Gracie: Yeah, for sure. We had made a few records, and we were in different places in our lives. I was personally feeling like I wanted to write another record and Rachel was like not in that place, and I was pushing and pulling her and it was really unpleasant for her and for me. Rachel was like, you should just make these songs if you need to make them. And I was so hurt and so sad by that. And then I just finally did—almost an act of retaliation, like, fuck you. Okay, fine, I'm going off on my own.

It's like if you put all your eggs in one basket—I was putting every egg into the Gracie and Rachel basket and repressing myself, and that's not attractive to your partner, whether romantically or creatively. Everything I needed was being funneled through Rachel, and that was a lot of pressure on her and not very inspiring. So there was this moment of like, fuck it all, I'm going on my own, and the band is over basically. And that only enriched our relationship at the end of the day, because I wasn't putting all this pressure on the band.

I made these songs out in LA with producer Ben Davis. And then Rachel got in her zone—she was ready and was like, let's make a record, actually, I'm ready. And then he had this idea: why don't you have these four solo Gracie songs, you're doing these collaborative songs with Rachel, why doesn't Rachel make her own? And Rachel was like, hell no, I don't do that. But I had accidentally applied for a residency in my retaliation, in Estonia—like, let me go as far away as I can.

I got into the Arvo Pärt Centre. They said you can bring your collaborator, and Rachel realized that was actually the most amazing thing for her and that she needed to write this work. So we went together, and Rachel wrote a lot of her work out over there. That was kind of the culmination of the four-four-four songs coming together. It did start with, 'Is everything over?' And then because of that, it came back together.

Analogue: What's true about the creative chemistry now, on the other side of that, that wasn't there before?

Gracie: It's kind of like there's not a pressure cooker feeling that there was before. There's more of a freedom. If I have an idea and I want to bring it to fruition, I don't have to just do that through her, and I think that makes it more intentional when I do. We can have different outlets, but it makes the work that we do less precious and more intentional. There was more pressure to deliver every message that came through both of us. Now there's more of a freedom.

Rachel: When you're writing for a band, you're sort of self-editing from the perspective of the other person as you're writing. It's only natural that when you're sharing a banner and an identity with somebody, that self-editing—you can't avoid it. There was a liberation to follow your instincts and your aesthetics that are just true to you, and not have to be as critical or self-editing, knowing, does that represent this other person, are they gonna be able to stand behind that lyric or that sound. I've gotten more interested in playing guitar, and maybe Gracie doesn't love the guitar. I've gotta play the guitar. Being able to liberate yourself and be accepting of, this is actually just how I feel right now, this is what I want to do, and I don't need Gracie to sign off on it.

The terrifying part is that we can't hide behind anything now. I've always been able to deflect—'Oh, who knows, maybe that was a song from Rachel's perspective.' But there's something really vulnerable on this record because it's like, oh, that's a song that I have to be accountable for now. I can't deflect it to Rachel. And vice versa.

Analogue: You're out on the road playing some of these now. How is that feeling?

Gracie: It feels really healthy. The two songs we're playing on the road right now—"WTF" and "Leaving Home Is Going Home"—are my favorite to play. There's just a feeling of raw what-the-fuckness. People have been yelling out after we play that song, just this feeling of exasperation and celebration. We're kind of crying out with people, and that's been a really cool and different feeling from a lot of the other songs.

It's so hard when you're making a record for so long, and you don't get to be in the room with people to experience the songs in real time. Last night, there were these beautiful people in the front row, really connecting with us, eye contact and all of it. That is like the fuel that keeps me going. Rachel is running our whole live show—audio, tech, all of it—so she's very busy and has a lot to do, and I have to remind her: those people were really, really with us.

Rachel: I didn't see them. I couldn't look up. I had a lot of things to do.

Gracie: She could not interact with anybody, and I survive off of compliments. That's what I need. We're very opposite in that way, but it's kind of what I think works.

VISIT: Gracie and Rachel

*Photo: CJ Harvey